May 27, 2026
Episode 188: Fixing Fairness at Work with Lily Zheng
What does fairness at work actually look like – beyond buzzwords, workshops, and performative initiatives? In this episode of The Future of Teamwork, Dane Groeneveld interviews Lily Zheng, a Fair Strategist and Consultant at Zheng Consulting, and author of Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All.
Lily shares how their early work in DEI revealed a frustrating pattern: organizations were very good at “admiring the problem” of racism and unfairness in the workplace, but often failed to create meaningful change. Together, Dane and Lily unpack why so many workplaces fall short at improving workers’ daily experiences – and what leaders can do differently.
The conversation looks at productivity myths, the difference between busyness and impact, and how healthy teams can be built by asking people to do “more with more” rather than “more with less.” Lily also breaks down how HR evolved from a support function into a policy-enforcement machine – and why many organizations now find themselves trapped by systems that no longer serve their people.
This episode is a thoughtful, practical take on what it takes to build a workplace that allows everyone to truly thrive.
🔗 Connect with Lily Zheng on LinkedIn or LilyZheng.co
🔗 Order Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All
Fixing Fairness at Work with Lily Zheng
Guest Bio
LILY ZHENG (they/them) is a no-nonsense strategist, consultant, and author who helps leaders and practitioners build workplaces that work for everyone. They are the creator of the FAIR Framework, an evidence-based approach giving guidance to those driving the next evolution of workplace diversity, equity, and inclusion. Lily’s work has been featured in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR, and their bestselling books, DEI Deconstructed, Reconstructing DEI, and Fixing Fairness, lay out the practical skills and knowledge anyone can use to create the healthy workplaces we all deserve. They live with their wife in the San Francisco Bay Area and can frequently be found indoor rock climbing and putting together yet another all-black outfit.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Welcome to the Future of Teamwork
00:27 Meet Lily Zheng
02:03 Early DEI Training Reality
04:03 Admiring The Problem
06:23 Summer 2020 Performative Wave
09:15 Safety and Backlash
13:38 Frills Versus Material Change
19:00 Leaders Doing It Right
23:09 More With More Mindset
24:06 Work Hours and Productivity
26:00 AI Productivity Myth
26:45 Busyness Versus Quality
29:22 Leaders and Real Metrics
32:21 Surveillance and Anxiety
33:47 Gendered Anxiety Coping
37:11 HR Origins and Policy Bloat
44:15 DEI as Leader Skill
46:48 Fairness Officer Debate
51:22 AI as Status Quo Amplifier
53:55 Wrap Up and Disclaimers
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